Here is the latest development in the Mamnou channel controversy.The new network took the controversial show al-Shatat off the air. In the US, the Jordanian Embassy released this statement.
It has come to our attention that a controversial program entitled "Al-Shatat" or "The Diaspora" has been broadcast from an independent/private channel entitled "Mamnou’" operating from the Media Free Zone in Jordan, which is not subject to Jordanian Law. The program itself was not broadcast from any Jordanian channel.
"Al-Shatat" drew concerns for inciting hate. Accordingly, the program has been stopped from the private channel as of Tuesday, October 25th 2005. The stoppage was only done through personal intervention of responsible Jordanians.
The Free Media Zone broadcasts different programs through 84 different channels and more channels are expected to emerge from the zone in the near future. The Government of Jordan does not monitor or control the content of any program broadcasting from the free zone, whether it is cultural, political, or otherwise. This is in accordance with the agreement between the government of Jordan and the Media Free Zone which is, in turn, affiliated with the Arab Media Company ART.
Frankly, I’m pleased. I hated to see Jordan’s name associated with inflammatory shows that incite hatred.
Just for the sake of credibility of all Arab media, I think stopping this show was a good step.
It’s really unfortunate that a lot of Arabs and Muslims today can’t accept the fact that the “Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion” is a forgery and therefore should not be used. It has been investigated many times by different and independent sides. It contains a lot of plagiarism from previous fictional works and its first publisher (the forger) had managed to produce contradictory stories as to how he had obtained the information in it.
However, that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a lot to be said against zionism, it’s just that cases such as this show do absolutely no good towards any struggle against zionism.
Wow ! Who has the time to read all that? Who has the time to write all that ! What does the word “scribbles” mean ?
Thomas, let me try to answer your post, disjointed as your logic may be:
But let me sum up your approach. your reply reeks with double standrads. On one hand, you offer nothing in defense of the “singular hate” Arabs are subjected to in the US media, you cast doubt on the credibility of a respected reseracher Jack Shaheen, you offer no acknowledgement of the real violence committed by US and Israel yet you are more obsessed with a TV show that is anti-zionist (the people who expelled millions of non-jews to make space for jews). And your final advice is for me to be sensible to the people who caused us such great harm. Not very objective of you Thomas. But I am used to hasbara.
“Your logic is so woefully put together it saddens and worries me Sakhafaat”
Don’t worry Thomas and don’t be sad. Let move on…
“as you are but another representative of a group that appears misinformed, angry and unable to focus on a pragmatic way forward.”
thomas, people on the receiving end find it hard to be as calm and pragmatic as those who dish it out (a euphimism for waging war and interventions). our problem is that we have too much information. We have been accused of many things Thomas, but being misinformed is not one of them. Unless if that’s how you see the world: those who agree with you are informed, those who disagree with you are misinformed?
“The dollar is ruling and these groups want as big an audience as possible. If they see they are potentially offending, they tend to shy away. Capitalism trumps idealism, for good and bad.”
Now here are words of wisdom from our free marketeer friend thomas. To know that the defamation of Arabs has contrinuted to US economy makes me feel satisfied. Thank you thomas to know that our defamation in the US is not without purpose. But Thomas, how come no films were made in the US that defamed Jews? Doesn’t free market dynamics apply to films about jews? Common. there has got to be an audience for these sorts of films? I am jesting thomas. Who dares make such films while the ADL is standing ready to crush any potentiall anti-israeli, anti-zionist, and god forbid anti-jewish film. so i guess the film industry is not drivern soley by free marketr forces. pragmatism (that’s what you call it right) says that you save your ass when confronted with a stronger party, the ADL. but since those silly Arabs can’t take you to court and bankrupt you, you can go on making all sort of nasty films, shows, and negative press. it’s capitalism and pragmatism, right thomas?
“Is your vision of the world so limited that you actually believe that the US is getting in the way of Jordan’s production and distribution?”
The question is so unrelated to anything I wrote. I am amazed at how you shrink reality to fit into your limited understading of the issues we are discusing. i have never mentioned anything about distribution or production. I have NO idea where you came up with that. But I will answer the issue of US intervention in Jordanian affairs. let me see…when a dozen or so US jewish rabbis send a letter to Jordans’ king in reference to a film that is very critical of Zionism. In diplomatic terms, this is is called a vailed threat, because we know from prior expereince the system of diplomatic escalation, if the king did not go along, the ADL would launche a campaign in Congress to threaten reducing US aid to Jordan, unless Jordan says Uncle. So the king went along to save Jordan this ordeal. We have been there before Thomas.
“No “due process” just decent, direct communication with an exchange of ideas that helped producers see the problem with fresh eyes. It helped bring about change. Shouting “Zionist – US conspiracy” again doesn’t do that.”
More cryptic stuff. You are thinking aloud thomas, please organize your throughts and make sure they are related to my posts before your open the fire hose. But concerning the last part about shouting “zionists and US conspiracy” I think you are being a bit shallow here Thomas. There is no conspiracy. The rabbis sent the letter in the open. SO agian, what are you talking about? conspiricies happen in secret. Nothing is secret about this ordeal. Are you sure you are replying to my post?
“I really don’t think you know what you are talking about. You think businesses in the media sector will be impacted? What do you know about the Jordanian media sector? ”
More than you do Thomas.
“If you knew anything at all you’d know they’ve dealt with interference for eons. The new initiative in the Free Media City will barely skip a beat.”
Your comforting words will no doubt bring reliefe to the concerns of so many potential investors who after learning that a bunch of rabbis can, with an 8×11 letter cancel a TV show in the Free Media CIty. I guess a 100 rabbis may shut down the whole channel. 1000 rabbis can turn the Free Media City into the Marshal Law Media City. What’s the ongoing rate to shut down a whole industry? 10000 rabbis?
” In the United States, mainstream television has a group of words that are not allowed for broadcast; nudity is forbodden.”
But anti-Arab content is legal in the US, as evident by the many hateful films and shows. How sad and how perverse. Yet when anti-israeli shows are aired on Arab TV channels, the US makes threats to stop the shows.
“You sound off on these issues, Sakhafaat, because you are frustrated at the situation in the Middle East at present I suppose. ”
More deep thoughts Thomas. These issues are part and parcel of the whole US package of the humiliating treatment of Arabs, the lucky ones that is. The unliky ones live in Iraq and Palestine. But thank you for helping me understand where I am coming from and helped me coup with my deamons. It really helps to have a US marine or Israeli IDF soldier offer his shoulder for me to cry on.
“If the king did put pressure on Mamnou to stop this program because he felt that it was laden with hate speech, more power to him.”
The King acted to prevent any humiliation of Jordan in congress and in the US media. We have been there before. he just took the short cut.
“Why should he continue to allow this fomenting hatred and anger on the street? All that gets him is more frustrated young people, desperate to strike out at an evil they think lies beyond their borders”
More poetry. this shows how little respect Americans have for the intellegence of the Jordanian people. To think that a TV seriese on an unknown TV channel will influence the behavior of Jordanians. Most Jordanians have family in Palestine and they know first hand the humanity of jews in israel. Most JOrdanains are very aware of the behavior of the US in Iraq, since hundreds of thousands of Iraqis fled to Jordan. We don’t need a TV show to tell us how israeli or americans act when they are in control of arab lives and without restraint. People are influenced by the facts not by a TV show that pales by comparision to the facts on the ground. don’t inslut out intellegence please.
“Jordan wants a two-state solution and maintaining a level of civility is vital if they — Jordan — are to act as an honest broker in seeing that come to fruition.”
Now that’s a good peace of creative writing. I like that Thomas. So Jordan must cripple free speech and press or it won’t be an honest broker. But the US can take sides with Israel, can allow hate speech in the US media and press, and still play an honest broker. Interesting. Are you also proposing for jordan to shut down newspapers that are anti-israelis and anti-US. That’s about all of Jordan’s leading newspapers. What else can we do for you today Thomas.
“It’s such a ridiculous simplification to suggest that the US and Israel are out there trying to influence Jordan’s media … blah blah blah.”
Let me remind you that the US killed more reporters in the Iraq war than any time in history of conflict. Two high-profile Arab reporters are in detention, one in gitmo. A TV show titled the Road to Kabul was pulled off the air last year. members of the production team said it was US embassy pressure. Then a year before, tv show Fares Bela Jawad was pulled of the scheduled of many Arab sattelites. US was publcally threatning diplomatic action against Egypt if it did not do something about the TV show. Aljazeera Jordanian reporters have come under sonstant threats of force in Iraq. A couple have been killed in action by US fire in Iraq. Independent investigators said room for error was very small. You keep throwing arguments that reflect your lack of understading of the facts on the ground.
“One other thing, someone, probably you Sakhafaat, pointed to “Reel Bad Arabs” wanting to equate that systemic situation with this particular series on Mamnou. That is a flawed comparison for sure. …[Shaheen]weaves all of these things into a tapestry that shows an overall bias. ”
I read the book too. I am afraid there are better ways of making your point than to try to undermine the crediblity and the methodology used by Jack Shaheen. I resent your attempt to discredt the scholar. If you can’t make your point don’t cast doubt on an otherwise impressive piece of reserach. The array of reviews of his book on the web disagree with you 100%. Only a couple of reviews, one by an ultra-right wing think tank and another by a pro-israeli media outlet, attacked Shaheen’s book.
“But that does not compare with a program that has a singular purpose: an attack on a particular way of life, religion or culture.”
I have watched many shows, some on cable others on radio, and the hate was directed at Arabs and at Muslims. Have you ever heard of The Savage show? Have you heard of T gordon liddy show, the watergate star? Bill O’Reilly? Rush Limbaugh? now you are making me upset because you are laying. I can understand you being misinformed. But this is an outright lie. I have listened, live, to so much hateful content broadcast on US radios, TV, read press reports and all of these programs have “a singular purpose: an attack on a particular way of life, religion or culture” in this case it was Arabs and Islam and these are some of the most popular talkshows in the US. Do not lie to me please. Many of the readers live in the US or have lived in the US and know very well you are not telling the truth about the US press and media. Yet nothing we coulud have done or said to stop these shows. How perverse, when you turn around and lecture us on the need to apply different rules because it offends israel.
“The creation of a piece of work whose sole purpose is to use lies and half-truths to smear and enrage its viewers is a dangerous thing.”
See my above reply. do not lie again about things we are very fimiliar with. that’s shameful thomas. you were doing fine up until the attack no Jack’s book and the outright lies about hate radio and TV shows in the US.
“They realized that while they might not agree with the list of complaints coming from the rabbis, there was enough meat in what they said that things should be stopped so as not to do the things I’ve described.”
I only wish if our complaints were ever taken seriously in the US. Yet we were always told that’s democracy get used to it. And we did. BUt now you are changing the rules, because you are in the hot seat. How unsportslike.
“I’d also think that if you find the Protocols of Zion bogus, you’d not stand so strongly for someone’s right to broadcast something that continues to propagate their lies”
but I learned democracy in America Thomas when I was a student. And in America, thomas, I listened anti-Arab hate-filled TV and radio shows and newspaper articles and chalked it up to democracy and free speech. Now, I am a firm beliver in American democracy Thomas. And whatever works for you in America surly works for us in Jordan. I don’t subscribe to your “For Export Only” version of democracy.
Your logic is so woefully put together it saddens and worries me Sakhafaat, as you are but another representative of a group that appears misinformed, angry and unable to focus on a pragmatic way forward. First, what “due process” does Jordan have set up for this kind of thing. I challenge you to provide such an avenue, since none really exists. Due process is more in line with individual rights in the West. But avenues such as I think you are suggesting are rare in the Western world. It is for that reason that films pop out that offend sensibilities. Only recently has that begin to change. The dollar is ruling and these groups want as big an audience as possible. If they see they are potentially offending, they tend to shy away. Capitalism trumps idealism, for good and bad.
Is your vision of the world so limited that you actually believe that the US is getting in the way of Jordan’s production and distribution? Come on. Are you surprised that a group that feels directly attacked by something would approach the king about it? You shouldn’t be. That IS one of the many avenues available in the Western world for protest. The US Fox broadcasting company produced a series called “24” that offended many Arab-Americans and Muslims. The anti-discrimination committee in the US and several other groups approached the producers and the show was changed, perhaps not as much as would have been liked but some change came. No “due process” just decent, direct communication with an exchange of ideas that helped producers see the problem with fresh eyes. It helped bring about change. Shouting “Zionist – US conspiracy” again doesn’t do that.
I really don’t think you know what you are talking about. You think businesses in the media sector will be impacted? What do you know about the Jordanian media sector? If you knew anything at all you’d know they’ve dealt with interference for eons. The new initiative in the Free Media City will barely skip a beat. You watch. You throw around words like due process, having not a clue as to what they mean and how’d they’d relate in this instance.
You are arrested, then you are entitled due process. Broadcasters are not individuals, they operate under an entirely different set of rules and regulations. In the United States, mainstream television has a group of words that are not allowed for broadcast; nudity is forbodden. These are not regulations that affect individuals. Broadcasters, at the discretion of the Federal Communications Commission, which is not a court, decides if it wants to fine or punish or not. No due process. Sorry. You don’t know how this works.
You sound off on these issues, Sakhafaat, because you are frustrated at the situation in the Middle East at present I suppose. But you fire your anger in the wrong direction time and again. Here you are upset because you once again see some sort of Zionist plot to take away your right to free expression. Actually, Jordan does not have such a right in place at present. It’s an uncomfortable reality, but true. It is working towards that goal. But because of political realities on both sides, that freedom right now has some degree of control, evil as you may see that.
If the king did put pressure on Mamnou to stop this program because he felt that it was laden with hate speech, more power to him. Why should he continue to allow this fomenting hatred and anger on the street? All that gets him is more frustrated young people, desperate to strike out at an evil they think lies beyond their borders. Jordan has enough frustrations without allowing media encouragement. Why do you think king Abdullah has put a halt on the hate speech that spilled out sometimes during Friday prayers. Where are people going to put all this anger? Unfortunately they’d end up releasing it on the streets of Jordan. That’s a national security issue that Abdullah should care about.
Additionally, Jordan has a peace treaty with Israel. Jordan wants a two-state solution and maintaining a level of civility is vital if they — Jordan — are to act as an honest broker in seeing that come to fruition. Jordan is on the side of the Palestinians, that is clear. But it needs to maintain good relations with the countries on all borders for obvious reasons and perhaps the one that seems to elude you: if Jordan is to have any cache when dealing with Israel it will have to at least to pretend to care about the concerns of the Jewish state. This program appears to have threatened that balance to some degree, at least on a lower level. But on a larger level it is just another bit of fuel to the fire slowly simmering in the kingdom. Let’s not pretend like that’s a good thing.
It’s such a ridiculous simplification to suggest that the US and Israel are out there trying to influence Jordan’s media … blah blah blah. There is much more to this, as there most always is with politics in the Middle East.
One other thing, someone, probably you Sakhafaat, pointed to “Reel Bad Arabs” wanting to equate that systemic situation with this particular series on Mamnou. That is a flawed comparison for sure. There is certainly a problem with bias against a huge range of ethnic and religious groups in Western Media. I’ve read Shaheen’s book. It’s looking at things systemically. He’ll pull out an instance of a movie where someone says something about the Arab world, no matter how small the part in the film. He weaves all of these things into a tapestry that shows an overall bias. He proves his case resoundingly by piecing together these little asides — some bigger than others (one in particular draws fire “The Siege”).
But that does not compare with a program that has a singular purpose: an attack on a particular way of life, religion or culture. The creation of a piece of work whose sole purpose is to use lies and half-truths to smear and enrage its viewers is a dangerous thing. I’ve not seen this series. But I’d bet some in Jordan, perhaps those responsible Jordanians, recognized that this was a hot potato best left untouched.
They realized that while they might not agree with the list of complaints coming from the rabbis, there was enough meat in what they said that things should be stopped so as not to do the things I’ve described.
After all, as one poster here mentioned, if the Arab world is so pissed off about being misrepresented in the global media, why would they want to endorse, perhaps embrace, something that did the same thing to another group. Rather, if would be more pragmatic, to have a greater sensitivity to this kind of thing so that when a program came out demeaning their interests, they would have a leg to stand on when they cried out it’s wrong.
I’d also think that if you find the Protocols of Zion bogus, you’d not stand so strongly for someone’s right to broadcast something that continues to propagate their lies. Imagine a book that did the same thing to the Arab or Muslim world. First, I’d imagine there’d be a similar uproar. Second, I’d bet there’d be a huge outpouring to stop anything out there that continued to foster those lies. Why is these things don’t occur to you as you wallow in the largesse of your conspiracy?
Hi Natasha:
“Frankly, I’m pleased. I hated to see Jordan’s name associated with inflammatory shows that incite hatred.”
I am afraid the issue is far more critical than Jordan’s name. In the US there are all sorts of movies, TV shows, …some good and some awful. But no one from the US government gets in the way of their production and distribution, except by means of due process and the courts.
What happened in Mamnou3 TV incident is most unfortunate. Pressure was applied and resulted in the circumvention of any due process. Freedom was the victim, and Jordan, directly, lost. Due process lost. The institutions that should be consulted regarding whether to permit a show on TV or not lost. The confidence in the Free Media City lost. Bussiness in this thriving media sector will be impacted. No one will want to take risks knowing that all it takes is for a handful of rabbis to write a letter and their business could be in danger, without due process. There is so much uncertainty now that this incident took place.
One more thing. I think this whole episode will backfire, further stregthning already high anti-israeli sentiments. While I belive the Protocols to be bogus, the incident as described in the press release and methods and tactics of pressuring the King of Jordan could have been a page taken from the Protocols, which as I said is a bogus document.
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=55676
the letter sent to the king says:
“We fear that these horrifying libels could incite viewers to hatred and even violence. Jordanian citizens, especially young people, should not be inculcated with such messages and images”
Yet I wonder if the same Rabbis who signed the letter wrote to Sharon telling him that killing arabs and occupaying their land is more harmful to peace and constitute REAL acts of hatered and violence, not a third-rate TV show on an unknown TV channel watched by, may be, the owner and his family and friends. This incapacity on the parts of zionists to understand that their brutality is the main obstacle to peace and the main cause for incitement is byond me. their many blind spots are very disturbing.
So while US and Israel kill arabs and rob their land and natural resources with impunity (in the name of democracy and himan rights, ironically), we can’t even say a word lest we are accused of incitement and anti-semitism.
Final Score:
Mamnou3 TV kill total:
ZERO
US kill total:
Over 30,000 iraqis, just since the invasion of the Iraq.
Israel kill total:
Over 3000 palestinains, just since the 2nd intifada
Outcome: Mamnou3 is stopped. US keeps killing. Israel keeps killing.
Get used to it or you wil have a heart attack. just take a deep breath and say I AM FREE, I AM FREE…..see, hypnosis can work.