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This is a quick post to Kudos to you for your courage! Caption: [An Iraqi woman cries tears of joy after casting her vote outside a polling station in the holy city of Najaf, Jan. 30, 2005. (Faleh Kheiber/Reuters)] |
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This is a quick post to Kudos to you for your courage! Caption: [An Iraqi woman cries tears of joy after casting her vote outside a polling station in the holy city of Najaf, Jan. 30, 2005. (Faleh Kheiber/Reuters)] |
Metalordie, it is good to see your last post, to understand more of who you are and where you come from. Perhaps you have had some of the same arguments here with members of your own family. That kind of writing is SO much more instructive than your previous posts. Thanks for revealing yourself.
I hope that you will see also that there are many non-Iraqis who have suffered in a very small way with you, of course never to the degree that you and your family have. I could go back to the US and shop at Wal*Mart (sorry, Linda!!:)) but I know that my life energy is best spent with Iraqis in Jordan, even if what you are predicting comes true. My family has been fasting and praying for weeks about the election and it’s ramifications. When I was hospitalized last week, all I could do from that room was pray for Iraq – and every time I did, your name came to mind as well.
You come from a great nation that could lead the Middle East into a new age. Your passion is needed, as Thomas mentioned above. All the best…
Actually Turkey has done so as well, I believe as part of an EU acceptance concession. Kurdish is allowed. More to the point, the part of your message that was threatening in my eyes was the “see what you get…” portion, not the other you so diligently examined. It follows in the “you do X, Y and Z” and you’ll get what you deserve vein.
But I digress. What you then proceeded to describe and analyze was truly interesting and engaging Metalordie. I hope that the passion you have for all this can continue along this path and I hope others will continue to engage you in a healthy debate. I’m no referee here, just an interested reader that really wants to see and perhaps participate in a real discussion about the situation in Iraq and the debacle that is US policy there. So how about prince Hassan as your constitutional monarch?
Not really. Iran has a “Kurdistan” province and Kurds publish a number of periodicals and a daily. They make movies with Kurdish as the spoken language, the latest “Turtles Can Fly” won the Best Picture at Spain’s San Sebastian Film Festival. They celebrate the Norouz like the rest of the country. Kurds are, afterall, an Iranian people.
Okay Natasha and Metalordie, I think i need to but in. Somethings were said to each other that maybe you guys regret. I dont know. But anyway, I think too many of us are picking on metalordie because he added a reality check to much of the celebration that was going on with the elections.
All he did, the first time he posted something was posted an article on Jan. 31 and then asked us if we would care about Iraq in a year when it got fragmented. Thats all he did. I think it would be fair if we stopped getting personal and went on with the discussion. Many of us dont support this election, and many of us do. Lets talk about that and not each other, Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
What reality would you like to hear, Thomas?
You say better Iraq. Fine. A good point. Do you know how many thousands of Iraqi intellectuals were turned away in any Iraqi reconstruction effort since March 2003? I can put you in touch with an Iraqi consortium of investors, architects, engineers, scientists and teachers who repeatedly contact US firms, the CPA and the US state department to become part of the reconstruction effort.
They have been turned away numerous times. Why? They did not have contacts or were approved by Allawi and Chalabi’s interest groups.
It is a close-knit affair, this reconstruction effort.
I would ask you to google Order 39. Or Bremer Order 39. It is an irrevocable order issued by Bremer. It gives Iraqis no say in foreign reconstruction efforts or profits made.
Who would not want to repair their country? Look at this Blog which is very pro-Jordan, it is always looking for the betterment of Jordan and its people. Why should anyone think the Iraqis would have any less initiative?
You asked about my family. Fine. My entire paternal side of the family is in Iraq – my mom is non-Iraqi.
I speak with them nearly every day and it breaks my heart every day. Entire families have moved out of Iraq. The intellectuals are on the run.
I have three relatives who are teachers, two who are car mechanics, one who is a former Baathist, one who was an anti-Baathist. I also have two relatives who work in local television stations. They are not pro-Resistance or pro-anything. They simply want order in their country.
My extended family includes Shia, Sunni and Chaldean Christians.
I would think I have a pretty broad spectrum of Iraqi opinion.
The Sunnis were dying to vote. They really wanted to. But they claimed this vote was rigged from the start.
Iraqis in the north of the country are particularly scared. They blame Iranian, Turkish, and Syrian intelligence services of doing everything in their power to maintain a status quo. It is in no one’s interest that Iraq emerge as a viable nation with a strong military again.
No one thinks of democracy. They say they want order first and they don’t care if it is brought by way of Saddam-lite, which is what Allawi is.
If Allawi can bring security without the rhetoric, his popularity will soar.
Young Iraqis are flocking by the thousands to internet cafes. It is their momentary escape and window to a world full of opportunity. Opportunity they do not think they have.
One relative, in his 40s, in Mosul told me he has never seen Iraq so chaotic. He served in the military during the Iran war. He is apolitical. He deserted from Saddam’s army many times and was beaten and had his head shaved – a sign of desertion in the late 80s. Another relative was forced to stand on his head for an hour as punishment.
A distant relative of mine who is – surprise, surprise – A KURD, was hung from the ceiling and whipped with salted water as it turned.
The last time I saw him was in 1994 when he met in Jordan. He smiles and laughs. As do all Iraqis, but below the surface (ooops, there’s that word again) there is despair.
Iraqis have been raised on bullets and murder and death and war. They laugh to hide a tendency to scream.
My family in Iraq don’t see eye to eye on all issues as they are multi-ethinic themselves. Sometimes, I am in stark opposition to things they believe in and vice versa. But ideas have been changing and under the despair there is some hope.
For example, when Mosul plunged into darkness a few months ago, it wasn’t the Iraqi National Guard that restored order. Nor was it the US army – hahaha, that’s a laugh. No, it was the Kurdish peshmerga.
They dispersed throughout Mosul and Arab families – who traditionally distrust the peshmerga – welcomed them with flowers and candy. Yes, this went unreported because western media are afraid to venture outside the green zone.
All of a sudden, the Arabs and Kurds seemed to be getting on and Arabs were beginning to wonder whether it wasn’t such a bad idea being part of a Kurdish-run local government. Who would have thought?
Most families in Iraq have written out or called in their wills lest they die suddenly. A sad note.
How is that for reality? What else would you like to hear?
Iraqis now generally are happy that Saddam is gone. But they miss the order he maintained.
As for the Shia in Iraq, this is their dawn. They have been persecuted in Iraq not only by Saddam and his cronies, but since the wars of Kufa and Karbala and the betrayal of the Ummayads. Under Haroun al-Rashid, they were promised autonomy and political representation in his Abassid courts. But he ended up betraying them and gave Kurds, Persians and Turcomen more power. Persians at the time were all Sunni and the heart of Shiadom was Egypt. It all switched after that.
The Shia had been waiting for this moment for near 1400 years. And they hate the foreigner more than you can imagine. A lot of analysts will tell you that they hate the US for being left alone against Saddam in 1991. But it goes back further than that. They were betrayed by the British in 1920 and 1921. But the British actually gas-bombed Shia villages when a Sunni Hashemite was injected on a throne in Iraq.
The Shia deserve their moment. Wendy asked me what I would like to see happen to the Kurds. I believe they should be able to maintain the autonomy they had for the past 10 years, their own currency and to keep speaking Kurdish as they have since 1974. The only country to give Kurds the right to speak Kurdish or say they are Kurd is Iraq. Turkey does not even allow a Kurd to say he is a Kurd.
But no secession can be tolerated.
I believe a national reconciliation conference is needed in Iraq. All grievances against and from all must be aired and done away with. The US refuses to allow this to happen.
Iraq will not survive under sectarianism. There must be national unity. And this does not exist in Iraq.
Pluralism is the way to go but from the outset, from the creation of the IGC, it was heavy emphasis on sectarianism. Posts were given out by Bremer according to sects.
These elections are divided along sectarian lines. That is why they are so opposed. They will ultimately move Iraq further from the pluralistic future it so craves.
Two years ago, I bitterly opposed the Hashemite relative who was a prominent member of the opposition and called for removing Saddam.
Al-Sharif Ali bin Hussein was very vocal and on all the networks before the invasion. After the invasion, he gave a few press conferences, berated early decisions made by the CPA and then disappeared from public view.
In hindsight, I admit I was wrong. A constitutional monarchy would have been an excellent option for Iraq and maintained Iraqi loyalty and nationalism.
Where has Sharif Ali gone?
Gee, I never knew push a few buttons – which means to raise the temp a bit – or scratch the surface were considered threats. Maybe my proficiency in the English language is lacking.
Sorry, Thomas. They aren’t.
Push a few buttons refers to raising someone’s ire. It is not a threat by any stretch of the imagination. But hey, don’t take my word for it:
From Thesaurus.com:
3 entries found for push buttons.
Main Entry: agitate
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: disturb
Synonyms: alarm, argue, arouse, bug, bug up, burn up, confuse, craze, debate, discompose, disconcert, discuss, dispute, disquiet, distract, disturb, egg on, examine, excite, ferment, flurry, fluster, get to, incite, inflame, make flip, move, perturb, push buttons, rouse, ruffle, spook, stimulate, stir, trouble, turn on, unhinge, upset, ventilate, work up, worry
Antonyms: becalm, calm, not bother, pacify, placate, quiet, soothe
Source: Roget’s New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
Main Entry: control
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: reign
Synonyms: administer, administrate, advise, boss, bully, call, command, conduct, deal with, direct, discipline, dominate, domineer, govern, guide, handle, head, head up, instruct, lead, manage, manipulate, mastermind, overlook, oversee, pilot, predominate, push buttons, quarterback, regiment, regulate, rule, run, steer, subject, subjugate, superintend, supervise
Antonyms: abandon, forsake, give up, let go, relinquish, resign
Source: Roget’s New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
Main Entry: distress
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: upset
Synonyms: afflict, aggrieve, agonize, ail, bother, break, bug, burn up, depress, desolate, discombobulate, disquiet, disturb, dog, eat, get, get to, grieve, harass, harry, hound, hurt, injure, irk, irritate, miff, nag, needle, nitpick, oppress, pain, peeve, perplex, pester, pick on, plague, push, push buttons, rack, sadden, strain, strap, stress, tick off, torment, torture, trouble, try, vex, weigh, worry, wound
Antonyms: aid, calm, comfort, console, help, relieve, soothe
Source: Roget’s New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved
and as for scratch the surface –
From dictionary.com:
scratch the surface
To investigate or treat something superficially.
Let’s open this up now. Anyone else care to wager how I was being threatening? Thomas had a go and fell in a blaze of glory…Ooops, did I just threaten you Thomas?
Mr. Metalordie, I can’t speak for anyone else here but when I read: “Tsk, tsk, push a few buttons, scratch the surface, and see what you get…” I would have regarded that as threatening. There seems to be a great degree of vitriol in this discussion. I do think that a Jordanian has some interest in the situation in Iraq. Those two nations have had their fates intertwined for some time. It’s not the same as for those that live there but I’m sure it is enough to care and to want to see peace. That’s what I think she was saying she wanted to start this discussion (Correct me if I’m wrong madam).
I’m not sure what it is you want but it’s clear you are upset. You say you are Iraqi? Are you in Iraq now with your family or do you have immediate family there that are giving you information from the street? I for one would like an opportunity to hear that. You’ve quoted a number of articles from people that just might be in an air-conditioned office. It’d be nice to hear something “real” on this issue. If there is any self-righteousness here I think it smacks both ways my dear boy (I’m just assuming–sorry if you are female). I do think any anger would be better put into things to better Iraq rather than rants in some cyber forum. One thing is for certain in my eyes the vitriol in your earlier posts sank this discussion. I wish it had gone another way because I was interested in seeing something different than every other blog I read.
Threatening, Natasha? My, my. How childish you are. Where have I ever threatened you? Or anyone?
Are you sure you are competent when you type?
If you are going to make accusations against people, I suggest you back them up.
Where have I threatened you or anyone else?
You owe me an apology for this outrageous accusation. How dare you!
Debate, sure. But leave your little mushroom fantasies out of this. When you accuse someone of being threatening then please back it up, or shut up.
Some people should show a little more responsibility when setting up their blogs.
Infantile and derelict.
First off Natasha, reading comprehenshion lessons are in order. The Iraqi hostility line was NOT MINE, but what I pasted of the article in the Guardian. You would have done well to mention that above.
Secondly, the way you led a previous blog with Iraqi hostility, was vague and open to interprations. Blame yourself for that one.
As for acting immature, the Dina thing was to try and enter some humour here, which is sorely lacking.
You are wheezing over the Syrian affair yet feel perfectly comfortable to delve into issues you have no inkling about.
Fine. Its your blog. Run it the way you like. But don’t for a second, a single second, hide your notions behind the veil of healthy discussion. If that were true, you wouldn’t have started off talking about pride and on and on and on.
It’s easy to throw rocks at other people, but introspection is a tough cookie.
The bottom line, once again, is you are entirely ignorant of the realities on the ground in Iraq. You are not in touch with people there. You can quote the BBC until you are dry in the mouth. That does not impress me.
You ask me to live with it. I do. Iraq is my nightmare. What has transpired is a nightmare that neither you nor hubby can possibly understand.
The painful thing is none of you stop to even consider the consequence if this happened in your countries.
I stand by everything I said. If you don’t like it, tough. I will not compromise what I believe in.
I am Iraqi, you are not. This is something you refuse to address and continue to talk about healthy debate. You wouldn’t know healthy debate if it crawled up and bit you.
As for spamming your blog, please. Don’t flatter yourself. As I explained, I was trying to add humour here and the jokes I posted were of the type I usually email you.
You want to find fault, look inward.
You don’t want to have ugly paths on your blog. Don’t act self-righteous and smug. Try it. Does a mind good.
Metlaordie,
What racism? You are the one who mentioned “Iraqi hostility” in your comment! You said:
Anyway, it saddens me that you can’t indulge in a healthy discussion without getting personal and worse: Acting immature by trying to spam this blog with phony messages [now deleted] under the name “Dina”.
We can argue forever about this topic and no one will gain anything if the discussion continues on this path. Having different points of view is what makes a discussion healthy, interesting and educational. Unfortunately, that is not what’s happening here.
You have your point of view and I have mine. We have both conveyed our views but appears that we are at polar opposites without a bridge. Anyway, I do not want to continue this discussion, as it is moving towards an ugly path that I don’t want on my blog. I hope any future discussions can be more peaceable and intelligent and far less personal and threatening.
Peace!