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March 20, 2006
On the issue of conversion
This morning I read disturbing news about an Afghan that converted to Christianity and now might be facing the death penalty for choosing a religion different from Islam.
A man could be sentenced to death after being charged with converting from Islam to Christianity, a crime under Afghanistan's shariah laws, a judge said yesterday. The trial is thought to be the first of its kind in Afghanistan and highlights a struggle between religious conservatives and reformists over what shape Islam will take four years after the fall of the Taliban.
Abdul Rahman, 41, was arrested last month after his family accused him of becoming a Christian, Judge Ansarullah Mawlavezada told Associated Press. The accused was charged with rejecting Islam. During the one-day hearing on Thursday, the defendant allegedly confessed to converting to Christianity 16 years ago while working as a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in the Pakistani city of Peshawar, Judge Mawlavezada said. Source: [The Guardian]
What's really disturbing about all this, in my opinion, is that this is happening in the supposedly post-Taliban era. It is no secret that those that covert to Christianity in the Arab and the Muslim world get harassed, but to be threatened with death is really horrendous.
Sadly enough, Jordan is another country where converts to Christianity will not only be ostracized, but will be also harassed by the authorities. To be fair, anyone changing religion in Jordan, whether from Islam to Christianity or vise versa, faces social ostracization. The difference, though, is that in the case of converting to Christianity one can expect to spend some time behind bars as was the case with a Jordanian couple I blogged about last year.
Ask Samer and Abeer. Last September Jordanian security police connected to the country's Mukhabarat, or intelligence agency, showed up at the couple's home unannounced. They arrested Samer and detained him overnight. Samer's crime: coming to faith in Jesus Christ 14 years ago. Originally a Muslim, Samer over the years since his conversion has been questioned several times by security police but never detained. This time, the police turned him over to the Islamic courts. The judges convicted Samer of apostasy. In a Nov. 23 decision the court decreed that his identification papers must be changed from "Muslim" to "no religion;" that he had forfeited any inheritance; that his marriage to Abeer is now illegal and therefore he is not entitled to custody of his son.
The US State Department 2005 report on religious freedom in Jordan also mentions this issue :
Members of unrecognized religious groups and converts from Islam face legal discrimination and bureaucratic difficulties in personal status cases. Converts from Islam additionally risk the loss of civil rights. There is no statute that expressly forbids proselytizing Muslims. However, Shari'a courts have the authority to prosecute proselytizers.
I'm fully aware that this topic is very controversial so I'm not going to say much besides reiterating what I said last year: In my humble, unbiased opinion I think that if Jordan intends to tread on a truly democratic path, then its citizens should be given the basic right of practicing a religion of their own choosing.
Posted by Natasha at 02:41 PM in Religion | 
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Comments
Natasha,
Thank you for shedding light on this, I think it is an important issue we need to address in the Arab/Muslim world.
About a month ago, I was watching Mahmoud Said as he interviewed a religious scholar. I don't recall the guest's name, but I was pleasantly surprised when he said Sharia does not call for killing of converts from Islam (AlReddah). As expected, Said changed the subject and moved on.
The thought that someone should be killed for leaving Islam is incredibly illogical and, to me at least, seems to be contradictory to Islam's core message. But it was interesting to see someone actually say it and on Arab TV.
Posted by: Alb Sayed | Mar 20, 2006 4:06:22 PM | Email this comment
This is a very sensitive issue that draws a clear line between religion and secularism. Although Jordan and some other muslim countries seem to be semi-liberal thay can never allow conversion from Islam to Christianity since this will inflame the public. I think this is one of the most disturbing issues in the philosophy of Islam which I, as a non-religious muslim find hard to came to terms with. Personal rights to embrace any religion is a basic human right and this shows the limits of tolerance.
Posted by: Batir Wardam | Mar 20, 2006 5:47:43 PM | Email this comment
if someone cared to actually read the sharia laws they would discover that God makes it impossible for men to punish men with the penalty of death. if someone care to actually analyze sharia instead of taking everything at face value they would discover that in Islam Allah swt places Himself as the ultimate judge of all things and the dealer of all punishments, and allows sharia law only to operate as divine laws which seek to protect a society, a community, an ummah. with regards to apostacy or adultry or any other law that has the maximum punishment of death, it is used as a last resort. the circumstances for this aghan to be dealth this penalty according to the sharia have to be so extreme, or detailed, that if someone actually cared to read the sharia they'd discover that 99% of these people do not fit the description.
sadly no one does
because the media doesn't lie
and also people are generally stupid. sharia should be taken more seriously if people wish for it to be applied. otherwise we're just putting water in the gas tank of a ferrari.
i just wanted to throw my 2 cents in before any potential Islam bashing takes place. but if anyone wants to get critical about it feel free to email me through my blog.
thanks
Posted by: Nas | Mar 20, 2006 6:20:57 PM | Email this comment
See how Algeria today issued a law banning any form of spreading any religion but Islam. Moslem seem to be very scared and emotional against loosing any moslem. On the other hand, not a single European or any country in the world seems to treat its Christian citizens the same. You go and believ in what you want, we are not scared to loose any to any religion; everyone is to give an account before God one day, and not before any human or government. I like how Dr. Wafa Sultan expressed her opinion, go and google her name and read.
Posted by: jareer | Mar 20, 2006 6:48:58 PM | Email this comment
Tash, This is the first time ever i actually post any comment on your blog although i enjoy reading it a lot. There will be no Islam bashing as someone posted , but there will be the issue of i guess having some sort of respect for other religions and their beliefes. I strongly appose your publication of this issue on this blog. This will only further damage people's idea and thoughts of Islam when it hasnt been explained proparly. I am sure many christians would be feeling the same if not more strongly about converts to Islam, not to mention many many stories of people dis-owning their own children that we have witnessed throughout our growing up together . I think that before posting anything as critical as this issue , a lot of information and a lot of research needs to be done so people who are not familiar with The Islam religion will not misunderstand the whole concept.. .I think enough Islam bashing has been going on for too long especially with the latest digusting publications that its time to stop now. If everyone is to have the freedom of what or who to worship then i suggest we leave the issues of discussing religions alone as some sort of respect for different people and their different beliefs.
Posted by: muna | Mar 21, 2006 3:33:49 AM | Email this comment
Muna, I think it is very important for Natasha to post this, especially as a Christian myself. The said couple are dear friends of mine, and to have watched what they went through was appalling. And as of this week, it is happening with another family.
I hope no Islam-bashing goes on as well. When Muslims begin to dialogue on these issues, as both Nas and Batir are, instead of burying them,
progress can be made.
Posted by: kinzi | Mar 21, 2006 4:02:38 AM | Email this comment
Kinzi,
Thank you for your comment.As i have mentioned before, many Christian friends were also caught up in the fight againest them from their families when they converted to Islam. I strongly think that issues like that are still not dealt with proparly by christians too in this part of the world. The only progress that will ever be made is when Islam is not stereo-typed and when chrisitans can dialouge this as well and not bury the issue. Enough said for me...out of my respect of freedom of religions and worships , this is where i choose to stop.
Muna
Posted by: Muna | Mar 21, 2006 4:25:23 AM | Email this comment
Okay, lets not even go with wafa sultan, because to think that only one religion, and no other religion preaches hate is an ignorant comment to make. goes to show you education does not always make us openminded.
lets face it guys! all religions and cultures at one point in time have been used toward evil, and i repeat, USED!
Religions are suppsed to be peacful. It is their implementation for personal or political gains that ruin them. As marx says it best, religion is a means to seperate societies.
And you guys, let us not forget how America came to be. Those who came to America on the Pinta, santa maria, and i know there was another one boat, came here to practice their religion freely, because they were being persecuted in Britan. Hello, do we not remember Martin Luther? oh, and the same people who felt persecuted and came to the new land, went ahead and forced the natives to practice christianity, and if they didnt, they were massacered. Hello, does the word mission ring a bell to anyone - how about manifest freaking destiny.
Oh, and how about the poor salem witch trials.
And, oh yeah, remember ads in the newspaper for job openings and apartments, where at the bottom they would state: "Jews / Blacks / Irsih catholics/ need not apply."
So everyone getting ready to bash Islam and think their own religion is all high and mighty should think again. Give it time, history will pass, and I am sure the next big religion will be the new enemy.
And for anyone reading my comment thinking i am muslim, well you are wrong. I am a catholic so blah blah blah.
Posted by: Linda | Mar 21, 2006 5:09:33 AM | Email this comment
Well I also happen to know a Jordanian girl who was totally abandoned by her family just for the reason of converting from Christianity to Islam.
Natasha, you are right! This is a controversial issue. But one small note, if you are trying to shed some light on a certain religion by focusing on a small group (example at the start of my comment), then try to be more objective by looking at the bigger picture.
Posted by: Abdallah | Mar 21, 2006 5:29:41 AM | Email this comment
Linda, does your religion preach hate? If you really know your religion, or care for it!
Posted by: jareer | Mar 21, 2006 5:33:44 AM | Email this comment
I don't understand why this has to turn into a fight of Muslim against Christian. This is becoming typical of how we as Arabs have failed for the past several decades. Its always Muslim against Christian, Palestinian against Jordanian, Lebanese against Palestinian, Khaleeji against Syrian etc...
Why can't we look at this subject objectively. My question to practicing Muslims is what are the consequences of a Muslim leaving their relegion according to the Sharia law and do you agree with it or not?
And my question to Christians would be, how do you feel about a Christian leaving his/her relegion and becoming Muslim, what do you think the consequences shoulud be?
How about inter relegious marriages?
Lets try to discuss not turn this into a bash party. All that Natasha did was report a news item that she came accross.
So if you all would relax and have fun I think it would be much better.
Cheers
Fadi
Posted by: Fadi | Mar 21, 2006 7:20:46 AM | Email this comment
Hey Muna,
Thanks for taking the time to post your comment. You should do this more often. You are right that changing one's religion in Jordan is a major taboo whether it was frm Christianity or Islam or vice vera. If you read my post one more time, you will notice that I mentioned this:
"To be fair, anyone changing religion in Jordan, whether from Islam to Christianity or vise versa, faces social ostrasization. The difference, though, is that in the case of converting to Christianity one can expect to spend some time behind bars"
Muna I look at this issue as a basic human right that is missing in my country that I love and care for a great deal. Do you really believe that the authorities should interfere when people change their religion. Do you think the authorities should interfere in someone's personal choice.
Muna,
It is not easy to discuss issues that might give Jordan a bad name. But Muna there is no perfect country and we as citizens that love our country should be the ones who instigate positive change.
I do not look at this issue as a religious issue but rather as a legal issue that should be amended. If those who converted from Christianity to Islam in Jordan were put in prison and harassed by the authorities then you will see a similar post condemning this act. It is all about a basic human right.
Posted by: natasha | Mar 21, 2006 7:37:09 AM | Email this comment
Abdallah,
Thank you for your comment. I suggest your read my post one more time since I have already said that conversion in Jordan as a whole is a taboo. This is what I said in the post
"To be fair, anyone changing religion in Jordan, whether from Islam to Christianity or vise versa, faces social ostracization. The difference, though, is that in the case of converting to Christianity one can expect to spend some time behind bars"
Thank you.
Posted by: natasha | Mar 21, 2006 7:51:07 AM | Email this comment
Ok, some persepctive.
If someone wants to leave a religion, he/she should not be killed for it, especially in the 21st century.
Sure, ostrasize them, disown them, whatever, no one can really control that. But killing them? That should be where the line is set-up and erected.
I do understand that it is an islamic rule to kill apostates, especially after trying to get them to reverse their decision 3 times. It's a rule. But many islamic rule are not followed these days (plucking eye-brows is haram. How many Unibrow women do you see in Sadi?), so why not this one?
As a muslim I welcome anyone who wants to join my faith, and I also welcome anyone who wants to leave it. You can't claim that there is la ikrah fel din and that you don't coerce people to believe, especially when there is a death sentence hanging on the heads of people who may want to leave it.
Think of it this way: How many of you would be up in arms if-oh let's say Israel- decided to execute a jewish man because he wanted to convert to Islam? Now think of this guy and tell me, why is he getting killed again?
Let this man go and don't judge him. That's God's job!
Posted by: The Sandmonkey | Mar 21, 2006 7:51:13 AM | Email this comment
Fadi,
in agreement!
Posted by: The Sandmonkey | Mar 21, 2006 7:55:59 AM | Email this comment
At some point of my life I realized I’m peacefully convinced with Christianity or Islam, do i have the right(FREEDOM) to choose what faith i think is better for me? If yes, thank you my society for giving me my freedom and treating me as an equal mature human who can decide his faith, if not, can anybody please tell me why you taking my freedom away from me, does anybody here have a fair reason why I can’t choose my faith? Either tell me your fair reason please, or just stand up for my freedom as a human to choose. And thank you Natasha for making an effort to give me my freedom, it’s a small step in the right direction.
Posted by: Husam | Mar 21, 2006 8:15:06 AM | Email this comment
"And my question to Christians would be, how do you feel about a Christian leaving his/her religion and becoming Muslim, what do you think the consequences should be?"
The only consequence should be that the person becomes a Muslim. And if later, he or she changes his mind and wants to convert back, again the only consequence is that he becomes Christian.
His friends and relations may laugh at his ideas and beliefs, because people should be respected but their beliefs and ideas should not. All beliefs and ideas are open to criticism and mockery. That is how we learn and move forward.
Any sane person will say "I think my beliefs are correct, but I know that others disagree, and I may be wrong."
Posted by: Don Cox | Mar 21, 2006 10:06:01 AM | Email this comment
Changing religion and the punishment is god is job,why people want to do good is job.
Posted by: hamede | Mar 21, 2006 10:32:28 AM | Email this comment
Well said hamede!
Posted by: The Informer | Mar 21, 2006 10:35:34 AM | Email this comment
I dont think this is just with Islam. You tell me what would happen if a Jordanian Christian, for instace, announced to his family that he is going to convert to Islam?
I have heard of this happening, and the reaction from family and society is little different than it is in the opposite circumstances.
Having said that, I dont think this is an issue that should be dealt with in a legal manner. These issues have as much to do with cultural issues as anything else. I read an article a while back where a Christian girl was murdered by her family because she wanted to marry a Muslim guy.
It is a lot more about cultural mindsets than anything else. If it was Buddhist and Catholics in the Middle East the same problems would be there. Culture......that is the problem.
Besides, historically it isnt that much of an issue. Missionaries have been in the Middle East and other Islamic lands for hundreds of years and have gained very few converts. It is really just a non issue, save for the few people it effects.
Posted by: Abu Sinan | Mar 21, 2006 10:51:48 AM | Email this comment
Don
Thanks for your reply to what a christians reaction would be to any christian changing relegion.
I still would like an answer to my other question. What does Sharia law say regarding a muslim changing their relegion and what do you guys think the consequences be for a muslim changing relegion?
Cheers
Fadi
Posted by: Fadi | Mar 21, 2006 11:28:32 AM | Email this comment
I may be called an "Islam basher' for this. (I'm not, but the series of events starting with the Indonesian schoolgirl beheadings, through the Pakistani church massacre, through the cartoons, through Samara, to this have made me beg moderate Muslims to stop by my site and answer a long series of questions that will hopefully let me understand where they are coming from, and why i should accept their view of Islam rather than the one I seem to see every week or so in the news -- and these things are happening, not being made up.)
I want to ask why, when Muslims hear a complaint, one of the first things they do is act like five year olds 'Mommy, the Christians do it too, nyah, nyah.' When it is true, it's usually something they did hundreds of years ago. (I'm an atheist, btw, NOT a Christian)
In this case, though, there's no comparison. As a bisexual man, I have known many gay men and women who have been disowned by their parents. Yes, it is painful, and sometimes they feel the pain through their entire life. But there is a difference between this and being put in jail, being FORCED to divorce your spouse, and, in the Afghani case, being sentenced to death.
Nas makes an interesting comment about HIS interpretation of Sharia law. And I do not know what his background is as an Islamic scholar. Here's another interpretation, from the (admittedly very conservative and Wahabist) site
"Islam Q&A"
"66. Make no excuse; you disbelieved after you had believed”
[al-Tawbah 9:65,66]
What you have to do is to remind this slanderer and advise him, and warn him that all his good deeds are to no avail, and that if he does not repent, he will meet Allaah when he is guilty of major kufr.
Tell him that the punishment that he deserves in this world is execution, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3017. "
According to the site
(Responses are composed by Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid, a known Islamic lecturer and author. ... All questions and answers on this site have been prepared, approved, revised, edited, amended or annotated by Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajjid, the supervisor of this site.)
The cite is
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=65551&dgn=4
As for Muna's response, the fact is that this isn't something Natasha made up, or found in an obscure, little known journal. This story has appeared in newspapers and on tv around the world, and almost every blog I read has mentioned it. Besides, SOMEONE MAY BE KILLED BECAUSE OF THIS! Saying 'Shhhh, sweep it under the rug, because it might make people think badly of Islam" doesn't make sense to me. (And no Christian parent I know of would kill their child or want them killed by the government for converting.)
Natasha, as I said on SM, keep up the great blog.
Posted by: Prup (aka Jim Benton) | Mar 21, 2006 11:41:15 AM | Email this comment
Prup
You ask a lot of good and interesting questions.
But if I may allow to say that you are throwing a whole bunch of issues into one pot which doesn't make it fair.
The very first thing is that some people need to understand that not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs. So I hate to say this that not all Muslims share the same culture and not all Arabs share the same culture.
Now to point out all what the Muslims are doing to the christians is quite unfair. You need to look at the same time at what the Christians are doing to the Muslims. Its both ways.
I am a Christian by the way and a very strong believer, however, I do think its only right to evaluate things objectively.
There are things I like about Islam and there are things I dont like.
But to take all the negatives and say this is Islam is unfair. To point to all the bad people in Islam and say this is Islam is just like pointing to the right wing christians in the US and say this is Christianity.
As I've mentioned on a previous post on Natasha's site, I do believe that most people that are against Islam need to stop and take a look and see how fanatic Islamic sactions came to exist. Why do they do what they do. How can we overcome these challenges.
Its very easy to point fingers but its not so easy to analyze the causes behind a messed up situation.
Looking at both sides as a Christian Arab, I think there are Muslims doing horrible things to Christians and there are Christians doing horrible things to Muslims. I don't think I need to give examples.
My own believe is if you don't like someone else relegion don't practice it but don't force your beliefs on others.
Cheers
Fadi
Posted by: Fadi | Mar 21, 2006 12:00:35 PM | Email this comment
there are different ways to handle this issue. I don't think it's a major problem in Jordan however the very few people who are concerned about get really hurt.
It's difficult to make a law against the wishes of most people. I believe that most Jordanians are not comfortable with the idea of a person leaving Islam and they don't want it to be legalized. Therefore, a law which allows people to do so might make most people angry.
Posted by: hareega | Mar 21, 2006 1:24:10 PM | Email this comment
What! This is considered CONTROVERSIAL! I am so apalled. Are you saying there is a single Muslim in the world who would DEFEND this?! I just don’t understand how ANYONE could support such a moronic and wicked law. Even if this man said he was a Muslim again; do they really think God can be tricked? Doesn’t He know what is in the hearts of men? I’m reminded of a hymn I love:
“Know this, that every soul is free
to choose his life and what he’ll be
for this eternal truth is given
that God will force no man to heaven
He’ll call, persuade, direct, aright,
and bless with wisdom, love and light;
in countless ways be good and kind
but never force the human mind
Freedom and reason make us men.
Take these away, what are we then?
Mere animals, and just as well;
the beast may think of heaven or hell”.
Posted by: Jen | Mar 21, 2006 1:33:18 PM | Email this comment
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