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November 22, 2005
Religious freedom in Jordan
I just finished reading parts of the 2005 US State Department report on International Religious Freedom. The section on Jordan is quite long and detailed. The report focuses on the hot topic of conversion from Islam to Christianity:
There was no change in the status of respect for religious freedom during the reporting period. A convert from Islam to Christianity was detained on the orders of a Shari'a court in September 2004 and charged with apostasy. In November, the Amman Shari'a Court found him guilty of apostasy, stripped him of his civil rights, and annulled his marriage. A Shari'a appellate court upheld the conviction in January 2005. Members of unrecognized religious groups and converts from Islam face legal discrimination and bureaucratic difficulties in personal status cases. Converts from Islam additionally risk the loss of civil rights. There is no statute that expressly forbids proselytizing Muslims. However, Shari'a courts have the authority to prosecute proselytizers.
I blogged about this particular case one year ago, so my comments can be seen here. Other sections of the report discuss alleged discrimination against the Druze and Bahai communities in Jordan.
The Government does not recognize the Druze or Baha'i faiths as religions but does not prohibit their practice. The Druze face official discrimination but do not complain of social discrimination. Baha'is face both official and social discrimination. The Government does not record the bearer's religion as Druze or Baha'i on national identity cards; Druze are listed as Muslim, and Baha'i do not have any religion officially listed.
All that said, I'm glad the report made mention of the fact that Christians in Jordan enjoy a very good status.
The generally amicable relationship among religions in society contributed to religious freedom. In general, Christians did not suffer discrimination. Christians held high-level government and private sector positions and were represented in the media and academia approximately in proportion to their presence in the general population
Read the entire report on Jordan here.
Posted by Natasha at 04:08 PM in Jordan, my nation | 
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Comments
Not a satisfactory report; too many points need improvement beyond just sitting and counting the blessings for not being persecuted or discriminated against. I give it 40 %.
Posted by: jareer | Nov 22, 2005 10:24:25 PM | Email this comment
That's a pretty depressing report, Natasha. As Jareer pointed out, one should not be greatful because they are not being openly persecuted. I would have thought Jordan was better than this.
Posted by: amal | Nov 23, 2005 1:09:22 AM | Email this comment
This statistics talks about the government * I THINK* however in real life you will feel more discrimination against you, I'm pure Jordanian and I feel some discrimination against me in some cases...
it's not about government, it's about people, they love it, and they want it
Posted by: Jad madi | Nov 23, 2005 2:28:00 AM | Email this comment
Four issues to be highlighted here:
Officialdom is irrelevant here, as it does not represent the true vibe of the street! Jordan represent a sincere and coherent example of coexistence among its majority of Moslems and minority of Christians (along with the odd self-segregating sects belonging to either), a genuine coexistence stared away from hyped notions of stimulated tolerance uttered from poker-faced official spokesman while feelings are flirring in the other direction...
One cannot help but sense the bad karma of the rubbing-it-in-your-face attitude in the report and the blog entry itself! Considering the volume of such cases? have it been a dozen of individuals being persecuted for “apostasy” then one would consider it as a scoring point in a “credible” and “impartial” report!
And even if the persecutor was an official body against a citizen because of his/her personal convections! What is more significant to highlight and acknowledge is the more immanent and traumatizing persecution coming from the families of converts themselves! (from both sides of course, despite the fact that the guesstimated ratio might be at 1:100, talk about volume) and the pressures they exert on their own siblings to salvage them from going astray...
If the people are not ready to embrace and endorse “shifting” personal convections, why one should expect the government to be more mercifully capacitating?
Posted by: Basem | Nov 23, 2005 3:28:50 AM | Email this comment
Natasha, thanks for the tip on the report.
The individuals in question have been granted UN refugee status. Sadly, in their first application the UN employee told them "You deserve what you get for leaving the nicest religion in the world, you don't deserve refugee status".
Basem, in conversations among Christians, I've heard many talk about the contempt with which they have been treated as a minority. I ask them if they have confronted the treatment, and they have said "They won't get it, they think things are fine because we don't have to pay taxes anymore and are allowed to walk in the shade".
Here is an example. A guy tells me my daughter is beautiful and wants me to 'write his name in' (she's 3, BTW). I say "thanks for the compliment, but our Bible asks that we marry within our faith". He says "Not a problem! Our Koran says she is free to marry a Muslim". Do you see the problem?
Or my landlord saying "When God opens your eyes, you will see the truth and embrace the true way". Or some shabaab saying to me (in front of my brood of kids) "let's go get drunk and have sex! That's what Christians do right?" Coexistence is different than acceptance. Conversely, I feel freer to have a conversation about religion in Jordan than I do in secular USA.
Also, there HAVE been dozens of people called in front of the court and intimidated into recanting their adopted Christian faith openly - but they continue to practice secretly. From what I have been told, this guy is the only one since the 60s who has been convicted. The other was 'pardoned' by the late Monarch, and allowed to practice, but had to visit They-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named daily. Daily. Now that is what I call "rubbing it in someone's face".
Posted by: kinzi | Nov 23, 2005 6:29:11 AM | Email this comment
Obviously, as Basem and others have pointed out, the report shows the extreme difference between official decisions and the street-inforced attitude. From what I have observed, to be born into a "Christian" family is acceptable; to convert from Islam to Christianity is contemptable. This attitude pattern appears to be an attempt of the hoi polloi to keep the minority religions in check.
Posted by: Dave | Nov 23, 2005 7:08:22 AM | Email this comment
I think Jordan is pretty good in religious freedoms. Don't just look at freedoms for chrisitans who are treated equally as citizens, but look at Muslims trhemselves. Many Muslim countries ban certain religious freedoms for its own citizens like hijab and prayers. This is almost non-existant in Jordan.
In Jordan I can at least say Merry Christmas! In America i have to think twice before i do.
Posted by: hareega | Nov 23, 2005 11:18:06 AM | Email this comment
I have no problem with Islam's ruling on people who convert from it.
However, if a person is born to a Muslim family, he or she is automatically called a Muslim. But what if growing up, he or she never actually becomes a Muslim, what if he or she never identifies with Islam on a day to day basis. What if he or she identifies more with another religion.
Where is the point in that person's life, where he or she makes the first choice? Because I think Islam allows people to have at least that first choice. It calls on people to join Islam, but it doesn't force them.
Maybe there's a missing link. Maybe the religion of citizens should be struck down on paper once they have reached the legal age of making their own decisions. Maybe you only count someone to be a Muslim when they are over 18 and they say "put me down as a Muslim". At that point, people from unreligious families who don't care, can leave that field blank.
There are so many points and views to consider here. A very interesting topic I find it.
Posted by: Hamzeh | Nov 23, 2005 12:03:56 PM | Email this comment
Maybe there's a missing link. Maybe the religion of citizens should be struck down on paper once they have reached the legal age of making their own decisions. Maybe you only count someone to be a Muslim when they are over 18 and they say "put me down as a Muslim". At that point, people from unreligious families who don't care, can leave that field blank.And maybe if you took religion or shari law out of the law equation you wouldn't have this problem.History has shown when "Islamic law" is followed by any country that has other religions ... there will be massive never ending conflict. And there is as much or more of that religious conflict today as there ever.
Posted by: jack | Nov 23, 2005 12:27:34 PM | Email this comment
I think you will find, as I have known someone who has done it personally, that in Jordanian society it is JUST as bad to convert TO Islam from Christianity. I dont know if there is any reaction from the state, but there sure is in society.
I knew one brother, Jordanian Christian, who coverted to Islam, and basically his life was over, as it goes with his family anyway. He had to accept that he could never see his family again, they were libel to kill him. This has happened other places in the Middle East, particularly Palestine.
I think the state should not get involved in such issues, but it is clear that the society has a major problem with this issue. Religion is a personal choice and I think that often it is the culture that is offended, the families in question, not the religion.
Posted by: Abu Sinan | Nov 23, 2005 1:18:54 PM | Email this comment
Very interesting topic.I am heartened by the amount of intelligent,objective,honest dialogue on this site (which I stumbled upon quite by accident.)
I am not an expert on Islam or Jordan,but probably know more that the average American.I would like to know what the heck "They-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" means,please.
Natasha,I read your post from last year about this case,and am a bit offended by one of your comments.Why do you assume we (Americans,Christians?) are at war with Islam? While there have been some skirmishes with radical Islamists (terrorists),we have not invaded any Muslim countries for the purpose of ruling them or adding them to our empire.Removing a dictator and trying to encourage democracy was a good idea,at least in theory,but it hasn't worked out as well as was hoped.Yes,we are somewhat hypocritical for allowing Saddam to fight against Iran,then turning against him when he invaded Kuwait,but politics is seldom an honorable or totally honest field of endeavor.
I do agree that we should at least learn the basics of the Koran,Muslim countries,Middle Eastern cultures,etc...which is exactly what I am doing in various ways,including communicating with people like you that can educate me.
Posted by: Dan | Nov 23, 2005 3:26:33 PM | Email this comment
Dear Dan,
I really have no idea what you are talking about. Where did you get the impression that I think Christians and Americans are at war with Islam? No I do not have any problem with you being American Christian and for the record I'm a Jordanian Christian married to an American and currently living in the United States so your assumption about my views is completely wrong.
I'm glad that you are interested in the Middle East. I would be more than happy to answer any of your queries.
Regards,
Posted by: natasha | Nov 23, 2005 3:48:22 PM | Email this comment
Jack,
true, if you take Islamic law out of the equation then you wouldn't have the problem I pointed out, just as if you take the wheels and tires off a car, you won't have to deal with flat tires.
Posted by: Hamzeh | Nov 23, 2005 3:50:44 PM | Email this comment
Dan, I meant the Muxabaraat, the semi-secret police. It's (HWMNBN) sort of a term ex-pats in Jordan use for this division of the police force.
Abu Sinan, you make a very good point. Family pressure is intense. A Christian neighbor of mine had a daughter who ran off with a Muslim man. The family ordered the son to kill her to cleanse the family's honor, and when he didn't, her actions and his unwillingness to kill her meant none of her first cousins would ever marry (within that clan).
The main problem comes with a C to I conversion is then they children automatically become Muslims even when born into a Christian tribe. In many cases, the husband divorces the C wife and she loses her kids (although the gov't has made it a requirement to personally interview any C man who has converted in order to divorce a C wife for a M wife).
Yet, Abu S, although family pressure in a C to I conv. is intense, it doesn't compare to having your marriage dissolved, losing custody of your kids, being declared insane and a minor and essentially being exiled from your homeland. For the husband in question, a Palestinian, he is now twice-exiled.
Posted by: kinzi | Nov 24, 2005 2:04:41 AM | Email this comment
OOPS! Really sorry about that,Natasha! I went back and checked the link to April 1st,and realized I had gotten your post mixed up with the one below it.The one I was referring to was written by "Nas" and alluded to a rather harsh,intolerant comment by Pat Robertson.I think Pat is a good man,although he tends to say some outlandish things that he later has to retract.
Anyway,Nas thought we should "know our enemy," but did the 9-11 terrorists really know THEIR enemy?Not all infidels are alike,you know...
I honestly thought you were a muslim,though you obviously have a greater understanding of them than I.
Didn't realize there were semi-secret police in Jordan.Does the king approve of this? I think he's one of the most balanced,intelligent,and articulate leaders in the Middle East,and I hope and pray he does not become a target of extremists.
Posted by: Dan | Nov 24, 2005 8:18:09 PM | Email this comment
Dan,
What you see in TV is different than whats practiced in the street.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Posted by: jareer | Nov 24, 2005 8:22:03 PM | Email this comment
and this is why i do not believe in organized religion!
Posted by: Linda | Nov 25, 2005 4:29:54 PM | Email this comment
Organized religion? What is this? and what does that have to do with our discussion.
Posted by: jareer | Nov 25, 2005 7:45:02 PM | Email this comment
jareer, organized religion, meaning islam, catholocism, christianity, Judaism, etc.
These are all social constructions that keep and promote the dominate one in what ever region you live in. it is these things that cause wars, hate and violence. while obviously they are meant to be good things, society takes them and rapes these religions for their pwn social and political gains.
and while this might not directly have anything to do with your discussion, after reading all these comments, I am just glad that i am open minded and dont follow an organized religion.
I believe more in spirituality, and my relationship between God and I is between us and thats that ;)
Posted by: Linda | Nov 26, 2005 5:07:04 AM | Email this comment
lol it really doesnt matter about the sharia', either way people who are ignorant will see Islam as evil and discriminatory. so let them eat cake.
at the end of the day, while I hesitate to call myself a Muslim in North America or in Europe, Christians don't have that problem in Jordan. Sure you have some dummies who say things like "may Allah show you the right way" but I assure you Islam didn't make them dumb, they were just born that way. The same way that old lady who sits next to me on the bus tries to convert me to Christianity because without Jesus my soul will be lost. I tell her we believe in Jesus but she just gets confused and tries again tomorrow.
Posted by: Nas | Nov 26, 2005 10:13:35 AM | Email this comment
Moslems have much much better rights and respect in America and Europe than those Christians have in Jordan; in fact, under the law in the USA, there is no such religion preferences. If that old lady does the same to you in Jordan, you have the right to throw her in jail for preaching Christianity and trying to convert a Moslem.
Posted by: jareer | Nov 26, 2005 11:02:09 AM | Email this comment
I am not talking about government laws, im talking about society and people's interactions
Posted by: Nas | Nov 26, 2005 1:41:30 PM | Email this comment
Nas,
The old lady on the bus may be a bit uniformed,but she probably truly cares about where you spend Eternity.Yes you believe in Jesus,but not in the same way as she.For you,Jesus is a great prophet,but for those who know Him He is God,and the only sacrifice for sin.
I guess this discussion is meaningless if there's no such thing as absolute truth and reality.
I don't care for organized religions or even the plethora of Christian denominations...but true Christianity is a relationship,not a religion.
May Allah guide you into all truth...
Posted by: Dan | Nov 26, 2005 10:32:07 PM | Email this comment
Jesus said: " I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me". I am the Alpha and Omega ( the begining and the last); even before Ibrahim, I was (Ibrahim lived around 2200 BC.) I am The Resurrection and Life."
When that lady talked about Jesus, she meant This Jesus.
Posted by: jareer | Nov 27, 2005 12:39:34 AM | Email this comment
:-D
Posted by: Nas | Nov 27, 2005 11:22:42 AM | Email this comment
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