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December 01, 2004
'Terrorism unveiled' ~ Give me a break!!
I stumbled across a blog by an American woman writing from Jordan. The title of the blog, “Terrorism Unveiled,” disturbed me to no end. Is she expecting to unveil terrorism from Jordan!! I mean, really, she seriously needs to re-visit her analysis!
One entry that I found particularly condescending and very upsetting was one entitled “not all camels and mosques” in which Athena (her pen name) says she was shocked to realize Jordanians go out at night and party.
Well, Athena, Jordanians do go out, they do party. They also fall in love, get married, go on honeymoons, arrange social gatherings and believe it or not even have barbeques. They also go to work, vote for representatives in parliament, write poetry, go to the movies, go out to eat, play sports, go on vacations and even surf the net. Believe it or not Athena, Jordanians are homosapiens.
I'm going to track back this post to give her a chance to present her side of the story.
Posted by Natasha at 03:37 PM in Jordan, my nation, Weblogs | 
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» Those modern Jordanians from Brain Shavings
Athena, an American blogger studying in Jordan, gives a chilling example of the deep cultural roots of honor killings. Today I was visiting the Center for Strategic Studies at the University of Jordan and my roommate, we値l call here Sally, went with m... [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 2, 2004 3:59:27 PM
Comments
This Athena needs to be stopped. These "Arabic language students" come to our countries, where we treat them like family and we teach them our language, only for them to come back and use it against us. The only reason she is learning Arabic is for her to get a job later with the State Department as a translator in order to do her part in the "war on terror." Please!
She is surprised that we go out and party... This is coming from the people that gave us Jerry Springer, Rush Limbaugh and Rap music (if you even want to call that crap music!). With contributions like that to the collective global society, she is not even entitled to an opinion on us or our society.
You know, as long as we let them get away with this sh**, they will continue to do it. We need to check our guts, grow some cojones and do something about these ignorant white trash freaks.
Ok, I feel better now...
Posted by: Scooby | Dec 1, 2004 11:11:53 PM | Email this comment
You seem to misconstrue my point. I didn't think _I_ would be going out to party here. I knew it existed, certainly, but I didn't think it would be something I would get to enjoy because of the family I lived with (which they did prohibit me from doing quite a bit) and because of program restrictions. My point was for some of the more narrow-minded readers to get a clue about the Middle East, a point which you missed by a mile.
You blog on topics that you choose, and I've been blogging on terrorism a long time before I traveled to Jordan. I'm entitled to my opinions. That's the beauty of freedom and free speech, we choose to talk about what we want and we have the ability to have and defend our stances, something that I've found sorely lacking here.
I've been to social gatherings, barbecues, dances and the list goes on. I go with my Jordanian and Palestinian friends...surprised I haven't seen you out.
And, Scooby, as far as using your language against you, it's too bad you feel this way. I love the region and the people dearly. But frankly, it's not worth my time to provide a rebuttal to your condescending remarks. Maybe you should read my next post up after the one linked.
Posted by: Athena | Dec 2, 2004 2:39:54 AM | Email this comment
Athena,
I have visted your web site, and as a Christian American with European roots, I am sad to say you are a racist, straight up. You are an educated woman. You should be ashamed to stereotype an entire culture. You call yourself a feminist? A true feminist does not generalize, does not stereotype, and considers all people as equals.
Go pray to God because you have a great deal of repenting to do!
Posted by: Anonymous | Dec 2, 2004 5:17:33 AM | Email this comment
Athena,
I don't want you to run away offended. I hope that Scooby's attack doesn't result in this. But I don't think anyone missed your point/s. Most of us read the blog through and through. Some of those reading are citizens of the very country you critique. I think it would do you good to listen and consider their opinions.
You indicate you are doing some sort of "program" in Jordan. That is something that really merits clarification here because of the opinions you proffer. As far as I'm aware, no school in Jordan provides a "terrorism" course. And I'm curious about your motivations to study Arabic in Jordan, particularly when you seem so quick to judge and stereotype.
Your post regarding honor killing was the one that really irritated me. If you want to learn about this subject, go to the expert: Rana Husseini at the Jordan Times on University Street (part of Al Rai). She has been singled out globally, winning award after award for her coverage. Our dear Norma Khouri co-opted her work but was eventually found out. I hope you didn't read Khouri's warped tome and now consider yourself an expert or worse: a judge. Like much of the adult world, the topic is terribly complex. You'd do yourself a world of good to explore these pages and those of the many other Jordanian bloggers to get a better picture of the issue.
The real problem, Athena, is that you plopped yourself down in Jordan, pulled up your blog and considered yourself an expert. That is naive at best. I think you'd do well do tone it down a bit simply because you know not of which you speak. Perhaps someday you will but only if you open yourself to possibility and shut down this paradigm you've created.
But until then you stand as a misinformed prophet to some converted mass of who, your friends. You mislead them all. Yes, you have the right to free speech. But when that free speech maligns others, when it misrepresents their life, their deeds, their thoughts you are engaged in hate speech. And that, my dear, is not protected ... even in the good old USA.
Posted by: Hubby | Dec 2, 2004 5:52:31 AM | Email this comment
Athena,
Thank you for responding. I apologize if I opened the door for exchanging insults, because that was not my intent but really your generalization is very disturbing and extremely racist.
You said: "These people are living lies. All the women here are veiled, whether the physical fabric is covering them or not.
And the men are just as blind."
I mean seriously, can't you see that this is a racist comment, not to mention that is totally wrong. Don't you realize that you are stereotyping a whole nation by your faulty, narrow-minded remarks.
I'm a very proud female Jordanian and neither me nor any of my sisters are "living lies." My dad is not "blind" nor are my cousins (I don't have brothers in case you are wondering).
Is this the image that you are sending to the West? Is this what you tell your friends and family about Jordanians? That they are living lies and are blind!
And people actually believe you! No wonder racism is on the rise and the clash of civilizations prevails! You really need to wake up and look around before you make such blatant, faulty and insulting remarks about the people hosting you and treating you with respect!
Posted by: Natasha | Dec 2, 2004 5:52:50 AM | Email this comment
In defense of Athena.
First of all, Hubby doesn't seem too familiar with Athena's blog. She has been writing it for some time prior to going to Jordan. Her study-abroad in Jordan is only one aspect of her blog and her education. So to think that she has traveled to Jordan to "unveil terrorism" and decided to start up a blog to chronicle the unveiling is a gross misrepresentation of what she is doing.
Athena has been highly critical of many Islamic societies on her blog in the past. Some of it is arguably objectionable; and I have argued with her characterizations in the past.
At the same time, you need to recognize that she is at a milepost in a long journey. A young American student has undertaken an effort to expose herself to things fundamentally different from her upbringing. She is mid-way in an evolution that most people in our country don't have the courage to undertake: to learn a language, a history, and a culture utterly alien to her. Her willingness to come to your blog with politeness in the face of your rudeness is emblematic of that. That is something worthy of respect.
So respect it. Anyone can cheaply accuse someone of racism. It's an easy habit for mindless defensiveness; but not necessarily appropriate.
First of all, notice that Athena's criticisms are of cultural practices she finds objectionable. That is markedly different from race, no?
Second of all, does she stereotype a culture? Perhaps. Unfairly? Maybe. Maybe not. But remember she is reacting to things new, alien, and challenging. She is interpreting an experience from inside the experience; and even if something seems unfair, she ought hardly be subject to the kind of patronization and name-calling y'all "tolerant" folks seem so committed to. Then blaming Athena for racism and civilizational clashes seems somewhat surreal.
Third, it is not Athena's job to "tolerate" and so "understand" things she objects to that she can't honestly critique it. She is not obliged to help a society rationalize away culturally-sanctioned violence.
Nor is she passing herself off as an expert (few bloggers do); nor is she responsible for how trolls wish to hold up her responses as validating their own prejudices (and I do include you). She is a young woman learning something new, and sharing it. It takes guts to go somewhere and learn about a thing firsthand; rather than read a book that one can then ponderously cite in order to dismiss a person's experiences.
I think of a lot of Athena's writing as being rather "raw". I often disagree with her analyses of terrorism. However, I think her observations on pseudo-academia, not only in Jordan but in the United States, properly expose its hollowness. I admire her enthusiasm above all else, and her courage to challenge herself.
Posted by: Stygius | Dec 2, 2004 12:13:03 PM | Email this comment
Stygius,
First, please note that I never claimed to be an expert on the motivations of Athena. But I did look at her blog and I read her commentary from the recent past. Never did I say it was created for the sole purpose you suggest, only that now it is being used that way. Those entries speak volumes about where she is now. It is that place that makes me concerned, regardless of how she got here.
Second, I'd point out that I myself have taken that same journey. I came to the Jordan four years ago without sponsorship or connections. I came based on the same interests you attribute to Athena. But I came without the bias, without the rhetoric, without the agenda. And I think you certainly overstepped your bounds in your assessment of my comments. They come from just the right place: someone who has been there and is there still; someone who came from that same nation but carried none of the baggage, someone's who's experience could prove beneficial. My comments are offered in that vein.
I do not see how my wife drawing attention to her post can be construed as rude either. You can't hold her to account for comments made after the post and I wouldn't think you'd be surprised given your own feelings about Athena's posts. These people are entitled to their comments just as Athena is to hers, perhaps despite our wincing at their personal nature.
My response was due to my experience in the region. I came here openly to learn more about the middle east after studying both it and Arabic in college in Washington, DC. I learned because I was not so quick to judge. In the end I found my wife, the author of this blog.
I am certain that Athena is at a milepost, hence my response: 'change your path Athena.' From the nature of the commentary that I read I feel she has sadly misconstrued much of what she is experiencing. Perhaps there are other things she says and feels that she doesn't put here, contributing to its "raw" nature. But how can you fault me for highlighting problems in that "raw" calculus. Those raw feelings should not be discounted.
I only know what I have read of her. I'm concerned that she feels the observations she has made are more notable, more suitable for whatever audience she imagines for herself. You say hers is a journey. I'm making my comments based upon where she is now. I've seen enough to feel a sense of alarm.
Curiously, she notes the prism through which American activities are viewed in the Arab media, notably Al Jazeera. But she doesn't seem self-aware enough of her own posting prism. I only ask that she take a few steps back and reassess her purpose and her agenda.
I didn't see it on the reading list Athena, but perhaps you should peek into The Road from Damascus. When I read and reviewed this book for Jordan's 'Star' newspaper I was knocked out. I benefited from Scott's hindsight and developed a friendship. Perhaps she can as well and maybe, just maybe, you could benefit from my criticism here. More to the point, perhaps you can benefit from the posts in this blog and in the rapidly developing community of Jordanian bloggers that often exchange views here.
Finally, never would I call Athena an expert. But to those that call themselves her audience, I'm afraid her posts and her place on "the path" are leading many people astray. Has she seen who is doing trackbacks? To me, it is a real shame.
Posted by: Hubby | Dec 2, 2004 2:24:12 PM | Email this comment
What is the purpose of posting "Hell Breaks loose in the name of democracy" and "Legally Brutalised" if women's rights aren't being violated? This is very interesting ---enough said!
Posted by: an American | Dec 2, 2004 5:17:53 PM | Email this comment
Hubby,
Since I didn't see much distinction in the tone of your wife's post and the various responses below, I failed to bother myself with distinguishing much between who was saying what. Your wife strikes me as a lovely person, and I think she is doing good work with her blog.
Nonetheless, I'll highlight one more time that I think you are being unfair to Athena, and that accusing someone of racism, hatefulness, and your--yes you, Hubby--generally smug attitude while then adopting a stance of self-congratulation at your superiority over Athena and her audience is a tad much.
Your pretensions to a lack of "baggage" aside, I think you bring quite a lot of baggage to the issue. Your writing radiates baggage. "Don't cast stones in glass houses" and all that good stuff. That's my main point.
(I'll also point out that I am one of the bloggers that tracked-back to Athena, thank you very much.)
You have a very slippery way of writing, including your not-so subtle efforts at telling us how bright and broad-minded you are in the midst of waging thoughtless assumptions on other people. Also, you seem to substitute references to other writing for substance. As a frequent citer myself, it's pretty obvious when someone is doing it to sound impressive.
Should Athena "take a few steps back and reassess her purpose and her agenda"? Sure! Who shouldn't?
Are insults and hyperbolic accusations the way to make the point? Doubt it. Seems to me it is more about validating your own positions, rather than any generosity on your part.
As Scott Davis is your friend, perhaps you could have done the same with Athena.... If you read this post of hers, you'll see that you may not have taken the right measure of her after all.
Posted by: Stygius | Dec 2, 2004 8:51:14 PM | Email this comment
Athena,
Why is it in your little anecdote about Malik and Sally, you choose to highlight the fact that Malik speaks English? That should not come as a surprise because most people in this region are bilingual.
Who are you to judge whether or not the entire Jordanian society is 'imprisoned'? My dear, how long have you been there for? Do you even speak Arabic? I've met people like you before who show up from the United States-and it's usually there first time even leaving the town they were born in-and suddenly they believe they are experts!
Have you spoken to every 'hijab-wearing girl' who you claim is willing to have sex for fear of being dumped?
It is people like you who spread misconstrued images of the Middle East. It is unfortunate you were allowed entry into Jordan and are still blind to the culture and society. And yes, as Scooby pointed out, the Jordanian society probably welcomed you with open arms. I'm sure people you met were eager to introduce you to the beautiful local culture and people. And you turn around and spread your ignorance. Shame on you.
Posted by: amal | Dec 2, 2004 10:20:40 PM | Email this comment
Dear "An American,"
I don't get your point. If you are referring to the articleI wrote earlier, then please open your eyes and realize that I, as a “brutalized woman," was able to post my opinion, criticize the acts of Jordanian MPs and ask for adjustment in the Jordanian penal code.
If you think outside of your right-wing ultra-conservative box you will realize that "brutalized women" are likely not able to do that. They are after all brutalized!
When will you wake up and stop believing what your media (or even your one-sided blogger in this case) is feeding you!
Contrary to belief, Jordanian women are not running in the streets trying to hide from their angry brothers or fathers! They are probably the most empowered women in the whole region.
Honour crimes, which happen primarily among the poor and uneducated, occur all over the region. It is not the norm in Jordan!
The reason Jordan is associated with honour crimes is simply because the issue is no longer taboo in the country -- not the case in many nations in the region.
There are currently a large number of dedicated groups working hard to eliminate this appaling beahviour among uneducated urban communities!
I mean really, “An American,” wake up!
Posted by: Natasha | Dec 3, 2004 12:43:44 AM | Email this comment
Please reread your article titled Hell Breaks loose in the name of democracy. I do not live in your country but it seems from reading YOUR posts, that you see a problem with women's rights. Maybe I am wrong and I could be because I have never even visited the region. But why post such articles if there isn't SOME kind of problem with women and their rights? Thank you for your response!
Posted by: An American | Dec 3, 2004 6:15:20 AM | Email this comment
Well, things are not as black and white as portrayed by Athena, who insists “all women are veiled."
Yes, there are violations of women’s rights, nobody denied that. But Jordanian women are not being chased down the streets by blood-thirsty men, an image Athena alludes to in her blog. What makes Jordanian women empowered is that they recognize these violations and are constantly fighting to improve their rights. This is real power.
Posted by: Natasha | Dec 3, 2004 6:41:22 AM | Email this comment
Dear "An American" and "Sygius"
I have been and advocate for women's rights in America ever since I learned about Feminist Theory: The belief that ALL people should be treated equal (not just women, but ALL people). Do we have that in America? Well, with what I see everyday, NO! I will give some examples:
-A woman still experiences the "Glass Ceiling" in the professional world. I am sure you know what that means.
-A woman only makes 75 cnets to every dollar a man makes in the professional world.
-When a woman accuses rape in this country, at times, like in the Kobe Bryant case, the country runs to the defense of the man, questioning the woman's sexual history and what she was even wearing at the time of the rape.
-Black people walk into a store, and are automatically follwed around by store clerks, because they think they will steal something. Try this experiement, if you are not Black, with a Black friend and see what they go through on a daily basis.
-If you are black and are driving through a nice neighborhood, you will be known as: DWB- Driving While Black. Its sad, but police officers will stop that driver, 95 percent of the time.
I can go on forever and give many examples of racism, sexism and any other ism that exists in America. But when I do this, I do not represent this as a whole of what America and its cultural values and beliefs are. It is only part of America. This is what Athena lacks in her arguments. No way can she prove that the entire country of Jordan is like what she describes. She comes out and says every woman and every man thinks like the ways she described. This is not a critical evaluation or critique, this is negatively stereotyping an entire culture, thinking your culture is better than theirs. Ask any scholar or expert in the field of critical theories: Athena's remarks about the country of Jordan are racist.
God forbid if an international student comes from some country to study in America, and lives in a small town in the South where the confederate flag is raised and the "N" word is used to describe blacks. This student would think the U.S. is filled with a bunch of white supremists. Or if a student came and lived in the "dangerous" parts of South Central (in LA). That student would think our country is filled with a bunch of gangs selling drugs and murdering people. (That is what would happen with a closed-minded thinker).
You see, my point here is all in the language Athena uses. I am hoping that actually, she is an open-minded person, and does not write very well. But unfortunately, what she has done is taken a negative part of Jordan, and has made it the whole representation of Jordan. Just look at the comments her audience is leaving: racist rude comments, that only perpetuate the ongoing stereotypes of ARABS and MUSLIMS.
Yes, women's rights are lacking in Jordan and the ME. But to say it is all of Jordan that thinks like Athena says, is discrediting the women's rights organizations fighting sexism in Jordan. Please, lets not say things that make these powerful women working for women's rights as if they are nothing, because Jordanian culture is so sexist it will never change (that part was sarcastic).
I guess my problem is I am coming from a journnalism background, and i believe in the importance of reporting the entire picture, and not a single part of it, and manipulating that picture to represent a false whole. I look forward to one day reading a post from Athena that will write about women of Jordan who are fighting sexism and working hard for women's rights in Jordan.
P.S. The constant statements of Athena saying there are Jordanians who are "modern" and "liberal" because they drive fancy cars, wear the newst fashions, and go clubing is a flase statement. Yes there are Jordanians who live this lifestyle. Im not disputing that. Unfortuantely, the terms modern and liberal have been stolen and rapped by our capitalistic soicety and have been globalized to refer to things like pop-culture and consumerism. If you research the words modern and liberal, their history shows that people who are truly modern and liberal are open-minded people in search of equal rights for all. That is why we can no longer call the Democratic party liberal, because it truly is not. It is a simulation of the Republican party, to say the least.
Just wanted to share that bit of info with everyone.
Posted by: An American as well | Dec 3, 2004 12:18:18 PM | Email this comment
American too,
Thank you for your response.
Is Athena guilt of a hasty generalization? Perhaps. Does that make her a racist? No.
Athena can be addressed and conversed with in such a way as to make such points without resorting to ad hominem attacks. That fact alone not only belies the accusation of "racism", but exposes the trivialization of the term.
It is an insult to people who have experienced and fought against racism to have the term then appropriated for such cheap use, whatever appeal to "scholars of critical theory" is then meant to impress us. Perhaps such hyperbole is one reason why critical theory has for so long remained on the margins of social discourse.
And don't think that Athena, or any other American travelling abroad, isn't subjected every day to mindless stereotyping about Americans. Any American that travels abroad has to expect to be subjected to bizarre rants about our country (and I have family in Canada the same way). Is this racism? Nonsense.
Self-gratifying superiority? That's probably closer to the mark.
Do Americans rend their breasts and gnash there teeth everytime some fool sees an opportunity to hold forth about everything that is wrong with America? They may roll their eyes slightly and try to smile politely, but they certainly don't find the nearest pedestal to start shouting about racism and the tragedy of it all.
Posted by: Stygius | Dec 3, 2004 6:10:49 PM | Email this comment
"Stygius"
It is one thing to critique something and another to demoralize an entire culture. When critiqueing something, the critique tends to be an expert in the field or has some knowledge of it. Unfortunately, Athena does not. She has a few Jordanian friends. Big deal. I just made a friend from Spain and spend time with his family. Does that mean what ever I hear from them represents Spain? No.
Athena did not make a generalization about some Jordanians. She used language that labeled thenm as a whole, making them appear to be animals.
Here are some of her quotes from the honor killing story she wrote:
"It signifies modesty, but it’s just a sick prison. This whole society is imprisoned. On the surface they seem to be taking so many initiatives to liberalize and pursue freedom, but deep down they prescribe to the same beliefs." (This whole society...hmm, it seems to me she thinks this whole society is like this. Sounds more than a generalization to me.)
"These people are living lies. All the women here are veiled, whether the physical fabric is covering them or not. And the men are just as blind." (All the women? Why not say, many or some women? The Men? She is refering to The Men of Jordan.)
Your arguement that Americans are generalized so why not do the same is so sad and weak. When I travel and people make a generalization about me, I make sure to educate them about who I, as an American, am. And just because some one makes a generalization about Americans, this does not mean we should do the same to them. Instead, if we expect any change at all in this sad world of ours, we should not live by the motto "an eye for an eye" but instead, we should reach out and learn about one another.
Posted by: An American As Well | Dec 3, 2004 7:27:13 PM | Email this comment
Come on people! Lighten up on Athena. As you well know, she is NOT a professional blogger. She is a UNDERGRAD student who was lucky enough to get to go overseas to study something that she was interested in. She is not a journalist nor has she written a book and she isn't an expert either. However, she is writing a personal journal and HONESTLY writing as she sees it. No, she hasn't traveled the entire country of Jordan but the majority of females that she has come in contact with (both rich and poor) have expressed their same sentiments re oppression. I don't think it just about honor killings (Heaven forbid there are that many) but I think the GENERAL sentiment of her female contacts in Jordan express the unfortunate "acceptance" that women are "second class" citizens. Maybe the unfortunate thing is that the empowered women of Jordan have not spoken with Athena. Either that or she hasn't met any of them. If so, I am sure she would have stated that. She is really NOT a racist as she has been portrayed!
Posted by: An American | Dec 3, 2004 8:47:18 PM | Email this comment
OK, "An American," being an American of Jordanian descent myself (surprise, surprise), I am not surprised at your staunch defense of Athena. It's just par for the course for the large majority of the my fellow citizens.
Being of Jordanian origin, it is frustrating to see you say "Come on People! Lighten up on Athena" when she and you are the ones who need to "lighten up" your rhetoric and realize that the propaganda she is spreading is just as bad, if not worse, than the one she is appalled by. I actually don't think that Athena is a racist; I just think that she is an ignorant bigot who needs to finish her education before she starts posting crap like the stuff found on her site. If she can't help herself and feels like she must blog, maybe she needs to concentrate on her English prose skills; if she does not intend to reflect a negative image of the people she is living amongst, people who have welcomed her as a family member, then she is poor, at best, in the way she is expressing herself!
Secondly, as an American, I am frankly sick of seeing that we are entitled to use propaganda as we see fit, but if anybody else engages in such behavior then all of a sudden it is an uncivilized and anti-American behavior. I love America just as much as the next Bush supporter from Texas; however, I have in mind a different version of America than Athena does. My America accentuates the positives we have to offer and tries to work on getting rid of ignorance (Jerry Springer, Rap) and the spreading of poisonous lies (Rush Limbaugh).
We as Americans have become increasingly intolerant of any behavior that seems remotely anti-American, yet we expect others to be tolerant of our behavior even when it is ignorant and hurtful to them! Sounds like you are asking the wrong people to lighten up.
Athena is probably not a bad person, and most likely she means well; however, the light needs to come on in her head. Reading her crap leads one to believe that she is the one wearing the thickest veil of all!
Posted by: Scooby | Dec 4, 2004 1:13:44 AM | Email this comment
An American Too--you are entitled to your opinion as you have so vividly expressed. You are missing the point totally. I do think Athena is correct in her assessment when the females that she has come in contact with express the GENERAL sentiment that oppression of females is accepted. Just answer that question. Is she right or TOTALLY wrong in her assessment? I am talking GENERAL oppression of women here. That is all I want answered. Thank you for your response!
Posted by: An American | Dec 4, 2004 7:04:55 AM | Email this comment
Mental and Hubby,
Glad to have found a Jordanian blogger. I look forward to reading your archives soon. Since the Jordan Times either won't print my letters or censors the meaning out of them, I've been looking for alternative media.
I'm an American and have lived in Jordan a number of years. Although I understand your concern for her manner of delivery and the impact on Jordan's reputation, my experience here with neighbors in East and West Amman is not unlike hers.
As an American who hasn't lived in the US for 17 years, I've learned to get a very thick skin and listen hard to folks who criticise my country. I can barely stand Eid visits anymore for the heaping condemnation we receive. But I love my friends, so I go. I think Jordanians would become their idealized selves faster if they also listened for the kernal of truth, grabbed hold and ran with it.
As a foreigner who is perceived as safe and trustworthy, female friends and even strangers open up very deeply about personal secrets they have told no one else, not even their sisters or best friends. It reveals a very dark side of life.
My question is why do girls have such a low value of self that they are willing to risk their lives, their reputations, their chance for good marriages, their cousins chances for good marriages, just for sex? Sexual promiscuity is the most soul-damaging activity there is. I was hoping, as I watch Jordan cast off some of the best of it's old culture and embrace the worst of Western culture, that this wouldn't happen. But I am losing hope. Maybe a topic for another day.
Posted by: Um M | Dec 5, 2004 4:08:41 AM | Email this comment
American Too,
You raise a number of interesting points.
However, I reject the idea that one needs to be an "expert" in order to form or voice an opinion. It seems Athena's critics (and I'm half-assuming that American Too is also Natasha's "Hubby", Jeff) have moved from accusing Athena of claiming expertise (which she hasn't) to irresponsibly leaving the impression that she is an expert (which is silly) to being responsible for the view of her blog's visitors (which she isn't) to now forming and voicing an "inexpert" position.
The ambiguity of "expertise" seems to be the attractive element to the people appealing to it:
"You're not an expert."
'Um. What is an expert?'
"What I think it is; and you are not it."
A bit of a circular argument, that one. At the end of it all there seems to be the idea that Athena "owes" someone something. Maybe a clearer idea of what her obligations are are in order.
And ... nice try accusing me of committing a "You too" error.
I wasn't attempting to validate Athena's argument by arguing that people do it to Americans too. Hardly. Instead, I was trying to point out that Americans put up with nonsense from foreigners all of the time without finding the nearest high horse to proclaim they are victims of racism. There's a difference there; if you look for it.
Second, you quote Athena's statement about Jordanian society, which seems to the point from which people who are accusing her of racism.
Now what I think the problem is here is that if Athena makes a statement about Jordanian society, people think that she is therefore making an accusation against each and every member of Jordanian society. This is an illogical leap.
A statement about a "society" doesn't necessarily apply to all of the members of a society. There is a distinction between an "object" and the components that make up the object. Thus, a statement about an object doesn't necessarily transfer to the components of the object. So, when Athena talks negatively about Jordanian society, she is not necessarily talking about each and every Jordanian, or even about "Jordanians" I suppose. If she expressly does make that connection, then she is of course making an absurd claim; but I am not sure she does so, or that it is fair to assume that she does do so.
For instance, take a look at some classic critical theorists. Marcuse's *One Dimensional Man*, a well known example, is entirely made up of a series of generalizations about society -- and the kind of "individual" consciousness it promotes and rewards -- without really saying that "Each and Every" member of society is exactly and inevitably the way he says it is. Foucault's work can be understood in a similar way, I suppose. If anyone was given to grandiose (and unconfirmable) pronouncements, it was Foucault.
Theorizing or arguing about society, and even about an individual's "typical" life in a society, is different from saying that each and every member of a society must resemble the social paradigm.
Thus, Athena is under no committment to 'hold her tongue' or repent of any "racism." She's doing just what she should be doing, even where she can--and should--be constested. Contest and dispute; don't accuse and stigmatize.
Perhaps one thing that is going on here is that Americans are long used to arguing about what it is to be "American" and argue about what an "American" society is. These kinds of debates are at the root of our political tradition. We argue about our society, and the state of it, all of the time without believing it to be an act of self-abuse. Look at other comments on this very page. People from countries all over the world have a lot to say about American society too, most of it critical. We often embrace these critics (if they aren't too boring about it).
The Guess Who's "American Woman" comes to mind; especially since that hack Lenny Kravitz appropriated it to gyrate to.
So we are used to saying "this" or "that" about a society without expecting (or even understanding) offense. To us, to be defensive about a society's faults is a very unhealthy thing.
Posted by: Stygius | Dec 6, 2004 1:15:31 PM | Email this comment
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